[13:58] Zotarah Shepherd: Ohhhh A spidergram! [13:58] Patio Plasma: in true 3D [14:01] Larry Pixel: yay!!!! [14:01] Lyr Lobo: /claps [14:04] Lyr Lobo: yes [14:04] Zotarah Shepherd: Some background sounds. [14:05] CDB Barkley: life is in the backgound ;-) [14:05] Carrie Umarov: personal communication cite - could that be used for interview [14:06] Zotarah Shepherd: Water and children - great combination *smiles* [14:07] Zotarah Shepherd: Oh slow rez [14:07] Lyr Lobo: my camera is stuck on it [14:07] CDB Barkley: / virtualdocumentationstyle.wikispaces.com/ [14:07] Zotarah Shepherd: Someone clicked it [14:07] Lyr Lobo: nice view underground *grins* [14:07] Ninmah Ash: /PLEASE do not touch the slides [14:07] Thursday Xu: somebdy tried to click on the link [14:07] CDB Barkley: yes, it is water [14:07] Patio Plasma: http://virtualdocumentationstyle,wikispaces.com [14:07] CDB Barkley: / script has been disabled, screen wont move [14:08] Patio Plasma: http://virtualdocumentationstylewikispaces.com [14:08] Patio Plasma: http://virtualdocumentationstyle.wikispaces.com [14:09] Patio Plasma: the last one works [14:09] Kah3na Falken: spatial orientation of world rather than page orientation [14:09] Desideria Stockton: excellent point [14:09] CDB Barkley: /lack of universal unique ids for content [14:09] Desideria Stockton: lol [14:09] CDB Barkley: / temporal aspects of content (things move, change) [14:09] Desideria Stockton: excellent point [14:10] Patio Plasma: Content addresses change very rapidly unlike printed matter [14:10] Pepto Majestic: persistence of citation location [14:10] Kah3na Falken: unethical copying of objects that obscures origin [14:10] Professor Humby: spotting plagiarism [14:10] Desideria Stockton: :-) [14:10] CDB Barkley: / how much do we atomize the content (how fine grained to cite) [14:10] Lyr Lobo: well the question is what are they citing and where are they citing it... I try to show the source of my content and comments when it is known...in Second Life, we do not always have easy traceability... [14:10] Ninmah Ash: a citation is supposed to make it so someone else can find what you found... how to do that in SL? [14:10] Trancecracker Kit: source not readily available...too much info from too many places at once, info overload [14:10] Carrie Umarov: Is there some way to archive locations the way web pages are sometimes. [14:11] Ninmah Ash: there's that service that "freezes" a website so you can cite it. Harder to do that in a virtual world [14:11] goodwitch Broome: bad idea [14:11] Lyr Lobo: it certainly helps, Brillig *smiles* Being able to go to the source for more information... [14:11] CDB Barkley: / no rationale for it [14:11] Elisha Allen: this world is primarily composed of ideas. [14:11] Ninmah Ash: Interesting. You can't really cite a location... or can you? Can you cite an inscription on a statue in RL? [14:11] Kah3na Falken: I'm sympathetic to a degree. Why shut down the freedom here? [14:11] Sashah Amat: the mentality that comes with citations. In German philosophy citations were used as a way to support one's own ideas with authority. In the other mind set, knowldge is to be shared so no authority is such that can impose limits on what others say [14:11] Ninmah Ash: And what if someone takes the statue down? [14:11] Elisha Allen: if you can't cite ideas, then you don't have a basis to build anything on. [14:11] Professor Humby: no exemption for academic process regarding plagiarizing but conversation slang accepted [14:11] CDB Barkley: / how is citation so tied to ownership? [14:12] nota Oh: If you can cite personal conversation, you should be able to cite SL. [14:12] Kah3na Falken: that equates ideas with property, and sharing them with ownership [14:12] Lyr Lobo: I cited Eric McLuhan's talk in Second LIfe, but also wished to explore his ideas and allow others to study them further, after we concluded... [14:12] CDB Barkley: / and what are our rewards for citing? [14:12] Ninmah Ash: citation as credit for ownership or first-thinking is easier than citation for others to follow your tracks, maybe [14:12] Thursday Xu: shared knowledge can be built structurally with citations - [14:12] Carrie Umarov: Would there not be many more copyright issues in SL than on web, given that objects are sold in marketplace? [14:12] Marie Torricelli: how are conversations cited? [14:12] Sashah Amat: citation is ties to ownership in terms of sharing knowldge. to cite means to stand by the authority [14:12] Patio Plasma: and what are the penalties for not citing? [14:12] Sashah Amat: to have an authority to back up your words [14:12] Professor Humby: points, CDB the currency of the academic world [14:13] Lyr Lobo: well yes, when you cite someone, you are recognizing them as the contributor/spokeperson/voice/contributor to the body of knowledge for that topic [14:13] Marie Torricelli: screenshots [14:13] Kah3na Falken: so citation insures accountability? [14:13] CDB Barkley: / need a positive reinforcement [14:13] goodwitch Broome: we need an "easy button" in SL for citations [14:13] Kah3na Falken: ooooooooo [14:13] Marie Torricelli: wouldn't that be like citing a conversation? [14:14] Lyr Lobo: I think of it as traceability and investigation in research more than accountability...as anyone you cite may be correct or incorrect in their opinions [14:14] CDB Barkley: / nice heads in sand [14:14] Kah3na Falken: die darth vader die [14:14] Marie Torricelli: lol [14:14] Ninmah Ash: well, it used to be a no-no to cite a website, and now it's pretty common [14:14] Thursday Xu: haha - it is going to be an ongoing challenge. [14:14] Marie Torricelli: right, ninmah. [14:14] Lyr Lobo: how do we feel about web 2.0 tools? I love them for collaboration and establishing conversations about the changing state of research [14:14] Carrie Umarov: How are games cited, I understand they are more persistent and have publishers/owners but could we use some of the methdology. [14:14] Marie Torricelli: it'll come around [14:14] Ninmah Ash: so maybe people just need to get used to the idea... it will become easier as there are more useful things to cite [14:14] goodwitch Broome: we can't wait for slow thinkers to solve this...we need to create elegant solutions that meet the needs of the learner and the "idea creator" [14:14] Thursday Xu: communication will keep evolving [14:14] Lyr Lobo: I cite games by their manufactuere's copyright, too [14:14] Trancecracker Kit: disagree w/ it - there should be governing rules around VWs to protect copyright, etc...just b/c they don't have the rules yet doesn't mean it's OK that it's happening this way [14:14] CDB Barkley: / MLA for citing twets ;-) [14:15] Elisha Allen: somewhat new to SL. what would you be citing that isn't content that exists somewhere else? [14:15] Hecter Barbosa: We have them cite for a reason - regardless of source - thoughts? [14:15] Patio Plasma: magnetism is cheap maybe a citation involves copying the entire cited matter? [14:15] goodwitch Broome: paper? how retro :) [14:15] nota Oh: it is interesting that there is now a wealth of info on 'electronic" media for APA and it seems to be added to regularly [14:15] Lyr Lobo grins at Patio [14:15] goodwitch Broome: how does the creative commons used in flickr apply? [14:15] goodwitch Broome: is it a model we could use here? [14:16] Desideria Stockton: www.slideshare.com [14:16] Desideria Stockton: slideshare.net [14:16] CDB Barkley: / they use same creative commons as flickr [14:16] Zotarah Shepherd: I don't see APA citation formats for most 2.0 and for SL in particular for some papers I am writing [14:16] Red Team owned by Desideria Stockton gave you 'Red Team' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/NMC%20Conference%20Center/58/214/21 ). [14:16] Red Team owned by Desideria Stockton gave you 'HOW TO MAKE A NOTE CARD' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/NMC%20Conference%20Center/58/214/21 ). [14:17] You decline 'Red Team' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/NMC%20Conference%20Center/58/214/21 ) from Red Team. [14:17] You decline 'HOW TO MAKE A NOTE CARD' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/NMC%20Conference%20Center/58/214/21 ) from Red Team. [14:17] Professor Humby: how do we converse with just our group? [14:17] Red Team owned by Desideria Stockton gave you 'Red Team' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/NMC%20Conference%20Center/58/214/21 ). [14:17] You decline 'HOW TO MAKE A NOTE CARD' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/NMC%20Conference%20Center/58/214/21 ) from Red Team. [14:18] Purple Team owned by Desideria Stockton gave you 'Purple Team' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/NMC%20Conference%20Center/53/221/21 ). [14:18] Purple Team owned by Desideria Stockton gave you 'HOW TO MAKE A NOTE CARD' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/NMC%20Conference%20Center/53/221/21 ). [14:18] Zotarah Shepherd: Yes [14:18] Diedame Iddinja: I came in late on this, sorry [14:18] CDB Barkley: hey red [14:18] Lyr Lobo: you friend everyone [14:18] ZacharyLark Zhangsun: so do we touch the box for our group? [14:18] Larry Pixel: use chat or voice [14:18] Larry Pixel: anyway your are comfrotable [14:19] Lyr Lobo: and click the calling cards to set up via right click a conference chat [14:19] Sashah Amat: Ok, I think we need to create a conference call for violet, :-) [14:19] Lyr Lobo: in the calling cards folder [14:19] Professor Humby: how do we work together, blue? [14:19] Ninmah Ash: Hi blue! [14:19] Marie Torricelli: good question, humby [14:19] nota Oh: hi [14:19] Ninmah Ash: let's try typing blue: in front of our chats [14:19] Ninmah Ash: blue: like this [14:19] Jeff Kurka: I think the purple group is to go to the SLURL provided [14:19] Patio Plasma: Blue:OK [14:19] ZacharyLark Zhangsun: good idea Ninmah [14:19] Professor Humby: this is gonna be a chat mess? need private rooms [14:19] Marie Torricelli: it's a bit confusing with every group chatting silultaneously [14:19] nota Oh: blue...that works for me [14:19] Lyr Lobo: who would like to be in a group? *smiles* [14:19] Ninmah Ash: blue: did everyone get a card from the box? [14:19] Professor Humby: type BLUE infront of everything [14:20] CDB Barkley: me with Lyr [14:20] ZacharyLark Zhangsun: Blue, I haven't gotten a card yet [14:20] CDB Barkley: was reading info [14:20] Marie Torricelli: BLUE good idea [14:20] Ninmah Ash: BLUE: click the blue box for your cards [14:20] Patio Plasma: Blue I got a notecard with instructions on how to make a notecard [14:20] Diedame Iddinja: Red. I"m still trying to figure our the notecard thingie. [14:20] nota Oh: blue what shall we write then? [14:20] Marie Torricelli: BLUE: me too [14:20] Lyr Lobo: ok setting up a conference [14:20] nota Oh: me three [14:20] CDB Barkley: Assignment is on screen [14:21] CDB Barkley: Do we have a group, Lyr? [14:21] Professor Humby: BLUE have notecard created. where r the questions after that? on screen? [14:21] Zotarah Shepherd: Camera closer to the spidergram to see the questions better. [14:21] Ninmah Ash: BLUE: questions are on screen [14:21] Marie Torricelli: blue I haven't yet had experience with citing from SL or other web 2.0 stuff [14:21] ZacharyLark Zhangsun: Blue, are we using group chat? [14:22] Ninmah Ash: BLUE: jot your answers and give the card to me or to Desideira [14:22] Hecter Barbosa: Major problem with communications when small groups try to interact in a small sim [14:22] Thursday Xu: sure [14:22] Elisha Allen: blue: I haven't yet seen any content that is SL specific for citations. [14:22] Carrie Umarov: Assuming I am blue because I am close to the blue block. [14:22] Ninmah Ash: BLUE: anything we want to chat about before we answer? [14:22] CDB Barkley: Hall, red? [14:22] CDB Barkley: hello? [14:22] Marie Torricelli: blue Can anyone answer how conversations are currently to be cited? [14:22] Lyr Lobo smiles [14:22] nota Oh: blue it seems electronic as for TV would work [14:22] Sashah Amat: Violet, are we having a group chat? should we relocate somewhere? [14:22] Professor Humby: BLUE where is spidergraM [14:22] CDB Barkley: getting in groups is hard [14:22] Lyr Lobo: we can...i started a conference, but it is in start mode... ok [14:22] Lyr Lobo: yes it is... [14:22] Carrie Umarov: How are we citing now? What happens when we fail to cite? 2 qs [14:22] Carmen Hoobinoo: REd: I'm so confused. I have not idea how to make a notecarde [14:22] Professor Humby: BLUE i don't cite conversations [14:23] Sashah Amat: where is the slur? [14:23] ZacharyLark Zhangsun: Blue: I think it's important to cite if we're publishing (paper or electronic) [14:23] Marie Torricelli: BLUE what if you did an interview with someone f2f? You would have to cite that. [14:23] Lyr Lobo: Red: I can create the notecard..the way we do it is by right clicking a folder name and select new note [14:23] Patio Plasma: BLUE when I place an exhibit in the Splo museum that has been provided by another person I credit the builder in the notecard that is given to the person using the exhibit [14:23] Larry Pixel: all groups: to make a notecard, you open inventory, then select "create" from the top, then select "nmotecard" [14:23] ZacharyLark Zhangsun: Blue: I think anything we usually cite (including personal communications) can be noted that way [14:23] Jeff Kurka: Sashah...when I clicked on the box a notecard came up [14:23] Professor Humby: BLUE patio sounds good [14:24] Lyr Lobo: Red team is made up of i goodwitch, diedame, CDB and Kah3naand Carmen *smiles* [14:24] Sashah Amat: yes, that is the card explaining how to create a card [14:24] Larry Pixel: to all groups: actually it is Create > New Note [14:24] CDB Barkley: let's roll [14:24] Sashah Amat: but we need to talk together [14:24] Carrie Umarov: What are legal implications? (fail to cite) I know that is an importanat issue at my university. [14:24] Jeff Kurka: I received another one... [14:24] ZacharyLark Zhangsun: Blue, sorry folks, gotta run, nice mtg y'all [14:24] Professor Humby: BLUE i have students cite ppl with comment on their qualifications - eduor prof or [14:24] Jeff Kurka: providing the SLURL [14:24] Sashah Amat: we need to befriend deach other and organize a conference call [14:24] Campbell Camel: orange to Bilig [14:24] CDB Barkley: any red people want to make the note card? [14:24] Jeff Kurka: I can pass it to you [14:24] Patio Plasma: BLUE Papers I have written I have cited other printed papers, however when citing locations in SL I give the SLURL and I work hard to maintain continuity of SLURLS in my sim [14:24] Kah3na Falken: RED: ok so you want some notes about citation from us yes? [14:24] Lyr Lobo: ok I cite conference sessions [14:24] Lyr Lobo: in Second Life.. [14:25] CDB Barkley: Someone needs to take note... [14:25] Lyr Lobo: I use the APA format, normally, but it varies based on where I am publishing [14:25] Lyr Lobo: yes, I am [14:25] Professor Humby: BLUE patio, wanna do the card and update the spidie? [14:25] CDB Barkley: cool [14:25] Marie Torricelli: BLUE so why not start from there - have the writer cite the place, time, person, situation [14:25] Diedame Iddinja: Red: we use a combination of styles - APA. AMA, etc. [14:25] CDB Barkley: RED: most of my citing is outside form web sites, so it is be including slurl and/or Sl coordinates, and avatar, if known [14:25] nota Oh: blue [14:26] Kah3na Falken: RED: I use MLA, but it doesn't work well for SL [14:26] Lyr Lobo: Red: yes Kah3na [14:26] Ninmah Ash: BLUE: I am answering the questions on my notecard, to start with. Is that what you are doing? [14:26] CDB Barkley: Rec- I dont write much for academic [14:26] Lyr Lobo: Red why does MLA not work well? [14:26] nota Oh: blue Name. (date). Retreived from....SLURL. [14:26] Patio Plasma: BLUE Also on my large website I work very hard to keep the URLs stable. [14:26] Kah3na Falken: It's based on page logic. [14:27] CDB Barkley: RED: does a strict rigid format be a necessity? Does strict MLA matter> [14:27] Patio Plasma: BLUE yes a date is important with the SLURL [14:27] Kah3na Falken: How would I cite, for example, a geographical location? by coordinates? [14:27] Professor Humby: BLUE yes we need dates for websites .. they die. perhaps also the webpage source [14:27] Elisha Allen: Do you cite avatar name or real name [14:27] Lyr Lobo: it depends on where you are using the citation [14:27] CDB Barkley: red: so in SL we need location and time/date? [14:27] Diedame Iddinja: Red: It matters if you plan to publish [14:27] Lyr Lobo: the style is less important when collecting it in End NOtes or for an annotated bibliography [14:27] Kah3na Falken: Say we wanted to cited this IM. How? [14:27] CDB Barkley: red: if I cite for anything it is to give credit [14:27] Lyr Lobo: as you can re-style it later [14:27] Marie Torricelli: blue: both RL name and avatar name [14:28] Kah3na Falken: We have no pages. There is no publisher. [14:28] Kah3na Falken: Only a dadte [14:28] goodwitch Broome: red location, time, date, avatar name (real name if possible) [14:28] Elisha Allen: blue [14:28] Campbell Camel: this is frustrating because there are too many group chats going on [14:28] Professor Humby: BLUE this is a wonderful mess of ideas. how do we cite it? [14:28] Lyr Lobo: for conversations and conferences, yes, tho I do not include the sim name... for NMC conferences [14:28] Diedame Iddinja: RED: yes, my brain hurts [14:28] nota Oh: blue: We cite as much to give credit and not plagiarize as to help give weight to our arguments. [14:28] Zotarah Shepherd: BLUE; Have you seen how SL is cited in some of the papers on the web? [14:28] Ninmah Ash: BLUE: excellent question Professor [14:28] CDB Barkley: red: but a citation reference outside of Sl can usually be retrieved; is that true in SL? [14:28] Lyr Lobo: red: or conversations and conferences, yes, tho I do not include the sim name... for NMC conferences [14:28] Campbell Camel: brillig I have not had to cite anything yet [14:28] Kah3na Falken: CAN we IM just our group (friends)? [14:29] Marie Torricelli: I have not, zatorah. [14:29] Zotarah Shepherd: Yes [14:29] Marie Torricelli: please share [14:29] CDB Barkley: ... Are Sl citations referencable by a general audience? [14:29] Campbell Camel: It seems like we could use interviews or presentation type cites because they are time based. [14:29] Diedame Iddinja: RED: Citing to give credit is very basic, but citing correctly, according to format required is the next step [14:29] Patio Plasma: BLUE are these papers also published in print, (For this NMC conference?) [14:29] iang Oh: red: http://www.bedfordstmartins.com/online/cite5.html#6 says how to document realtime conversations [14:29] Lyr Lobo: REd: want me to condense our notes and distribute them for a quick edit? [14:30] Kah3na Falken: good luck with that notecard, Lyr. [14:30] Carrie Umarov: How do you protect the identity of a person (well known say) if you use their avatar's name. I still think a pseudonym would be appropriate. [14:30] Campbell Camel: does any orange have a note card [14:30] Kah3na Falken: yes. [14:30] Ninmah Ash: BLUE: has anyone captured the blue text to a notecard? If not, I will [14:30] Elisha Allen: blue: that would be great [14:30] Professor Humby: BLUE i have not [14:30] Kah3na Falken: Red: Lyr, go for it. [14:31] Ninmah Ash: BLUE okay I will capture it. Any last thoughts before I copy & paste? [14:31] Campbell Camel: I just created an orange note what goes on it? [14:31] nota Oh: Blue... in a way, I can see a comparison between citing inside a database and citing inside SL...and personal conversation. Neither can actually be accessed from outside (database & conversation). [14:31] Chimera Cosmos: What are the things that don't have a RL equivalent? [14:31] Zotarah Shepherd: BLUE Please do Ninmah Thanks [14:31] Chimera Cosmos: presenting, talking with people seem the same [14:31] Pepto Majestic: Desi can you please repeat the original ? again [14:32] Elisha Allen: blue: if the citation is not one that can be looked at by others, then there is a huge question of potential authenticity [14:32] Lyr Lobo gave you Citations activity by Red Team. [14:32] Pepto Majestic: thx [14:32] Carmen Hoobinoo: red: thanks Lyr [14:32] Diedame Iddinja: RED: If we fail to cite credibility is jeopardized [14:32] Lyr Lobo: red: if I missed a comment, my appologies...was not easy *laughs* [14:32] Kah3na Falken: Lyr, thnx [14:32] Campbell Camel: Orange How about using interview and presentation citations for time based experiences. It seems very informal which makes citation difficult. [14:32] Lyr Lobo: added your commend, Diedame [14:33] Diedame Iddinja: RED: Lyr, thanks for taking the lead here [14:33] Chimera Cosmos: Sorry - newbie question - do you mean that people don't cite conference presentations from SL? [14:33] nota Oh: Blue: I'm sure there is, but somethings are only available to a closed group. My school has created it's own criteria for that [14:33] Professor Humby: BLUE how'd it go Ninmah? [14:33] Marie Torricelli: I don' know how to pass an object. [14:33] Lyr Lobo smiles [14:34] Campbell Camel: how do we pass [14:34] Lyr Lobo: I could use a drink... *eyes the pepsi... * [14:34] Marie Torricelli: thx [14:34] Lyr Lobo: that was a cognitive load test [14:34] Professor Humby: lol oh dear [14:34] Ninmah Ash: I will have the blue one ready shortly [14:34] Diedame Iddinja: Martini! Make mine vodka [14:34] Zotarah Shepherd: For example the SLCC of 2006 has SL citations, so I am using that form on my papers. [14:34] Patio Plasma: I did the first 7 minutes of blue [14:34] nota Oh: Ninmah, can we get copies too? [14:35] Professor Humby: can we see what you have on the other cards by touching the object menu? [14:36] Chimera Cosmos: Ah, I see. Published vs non-published conference proceedings. [14:36] Ninmah Ash: /well done & thank you [14:36] Zotarah Shepherd: Like citing for a radio program it should include the air date. [14:36] Professor Humby: BLUE thank u Ninmah [14:36] TwitterHUD 0.1: posting: Desideria Stockton (Beth R-G) leading great discussion on citation in virtual worlds, web 2.0 - same as "conversation" cite? [14:36] TwitterHUD 0.1: OK! posted to http://twitter.com/cogdog [14:36] Lyr Lobo: kah3na that info on how to cite conversations is a great addition...thanks [14:36] Zotarah Shepherd: Both [14:36] Lyr Lobo: and the comments were excellent... go red team *grins* [14:36] Lyr Lobo: both [14:36] Marie Torricelli: /afk [14:37] Lyr Lobo: I like knowing who said it, finding more information, but also having integrity that ties to a body of research [14:37] Carrie Umarov: mainly for finding source and verifying original material (content and intent). [14:37] Larry Pixel: as a writer, i do it for professional refenece; as a reader, I want to find it [14:37] Lyr Lobo: CDB says that< but I find him to be an authority [14:37] Kah3na Falken: If it's a public outlet, you're publishing. [14:37] Lyr Lobo: from TCC presentations and Maricopa [14:37] Diedame Iddinja: Yes, publishing is communication [14:37] Kah3na Falken: You can be held accountable for these communications? [14:37] Chimera Cosmos: there must be a standard format for citing blogs? [14:37] Lyr Lobo: I've heard him at 7 years of conferences prior to NMC [14:37] Lyr Lobo: hehe [14:37] Professor Humby: credentials [14:38] Kah3na Falken: CDB is an authoritiy? [14:38] Lyr Lobo: I think 7... yup [14:38] Lyr Lobo: even on the floor outside a restroom at a guest university... he gave a TCC presentation *flush* [14:38] CDB Barkley: he cannot speak w/o saying um [14:38] Zotarah Shepherd: I still have to cite in papers for the MA courses I am taking. [14:38] Lyr Lobo: he is the master of charismatic presentations *smiles* [14:38] Kah3na Falken: Happens all the time on listsserves, or with email [14:38] Sashah Amat: how to do define stealing? Retelling the idea, enhancing it, digesting it and developing it is that stealing? [14:39] Lyr Lobo: sharing... ahh stealing may be without following enough rigor to find the original source. Some sources I cannot find... they elude me so *pulls out her stick* [14:39] Zotarah Shepherd: I think we should be informed if information will be used for a citation. [14:39] Carrie Umarov: Informality of the web has translated into SL. I think it is generational / cultural issue. As well as whether people have had formal training in research methods and need for citation. [14:40] Lyr Lobo: for folks that I mentioned and cited in one paper, I asked them, and asked them if they wanted their real life or avatar names or both in the citation [14:40] Lyr Lobo: citing in SL is tricky due to anonymity issues [14:40] Kah3na Falken: do yo cite the avatar? [14:40] Lyr Lobo: you bet [14:40] Lyr Lobo: if the avatar is the person who is the spokesperson...I go with the avatar name [14:40] Jeff Kurka: can a virtual being be cited? [14:40] Larry Pixel: it does to me [14:40] Zotarah Shepherd: I always ask if I can cite someone. [14:40] Carrie Umarov: Lyr I agree with checking with people. In social science reserach the standard is to use pseudonym. [14:41] CDB Barkley: perhaps an evolving system of reputation tracking [14:41] Lyr Lobo smiles and nods [14:41] Lyr Lobo: but some folks like the notoriety and research credits to go to their real lif enames [14:41] Lyr Lobo: it is just easier to make them make the choice...and declare it [14:41] CDB Barkley: Are there some good stories about citation? [14:41] Lyr Lobo: I have to think less then [14:41] Elisha Allen: does this research require human subjects studies/approval if you are going to cite interviews in SL? [14:41] Carrie Umarov: True so it is best to ask then. It would depend on type of publication, i.e. scholarly vs. popular press. [14:41] Kah3na Falken: AGGHHHHHHH [14:42] goodwitch Broome: what if we added citation information to our SL profiles? [14:42] Lyr Lobo: that is students...but as someone who mentors doctoral dissertations...i'd better cite or get eaten alive...as it is, i'm adding a better citation for Eric McLuhan's talk to my slides for slideshare.net [14:42] Scaramouche Maruti: How about having formal and informal zones? [14:42] CDB Barkley: like some virtual trackback? [14:42] Kah3na Falken: Is loging chat for citation purposes ethical? [14:42] Lyr Lobo: that used to be a tougher question, kah3na [14:42] CDB Barkley: "Katrina" [14:42] Lyr Lobo: when the logs weren't available... LL frowned on it [14:42] Elisha Allen: kah3na: I think it's not unless you've asked the person permission [14:42] Zotarah Shepherd: If I am doing a study here or on the TG I will need to get approval. [14:42] goodwitch Broome: citation preferences would indicate how you want to be cited (SL name, personal name, both) [14:42] Chimera Cosmos: it starts to sound like human subjects research [14:43] Kah3na Falken: Kah-three-nah [14:43] CDB Barkley: /we've had some racy conversations ;-) [14:43] CDB Barkley: ! [14:43] Lyr Lobo: If I am using a conversation in a paper, I talk to the source about it [14:43] Chimera Cosmos: if you quote without permission it's a violation of IRB rules [14:43] Kah3na Falken: :) [14:43] Scaramouche Maruti: Having formal zones where the rules are clear would help. [14:43] CDB Barkley: / its easy to informa on te outset your intent [14:43] Lyr Lobo nods and agrees [14:43] Scaramouche Maruti: Everyplace is informal. ... [14:43] Sashah Amat: Do you feel that you need to be cited for what you do professionally in SL , desi? In terms of is it important for you as professional that people cite you when they refer to your work in sl? [14:43] Zotarah Shepherd: When I quote people I have met in SL on a paper I ask them if i can do that and cite them. [14:44] Kah3na Falken: Until you come up for tenure [14:44] Scaramouche Maruti: except for formal zones. Like cocktail chat vs. a conference "talk." [14:44] Lyr Lobo smiles and nods [14:44] Professor Humby: a lot .. that's the ultimate understatement [14:44] Kah3na Falken: the Poe house was great. [14:44] Chimera Cosmos: citing coctail chat probably wouldn't count too much for tenure :-) [14:44] Zotarah Shepherd: Poe was a wonderful build! [14:44] Sashah Amat: Thank you, that answers my question. [14:45] Lyr Lobo: I saw someone quote me on a blog incorrectly [14:45] Kah3na Falken: But that's a different issue as well: the problem of collaborative work and citation. [14:45] Thursday Xu: what about machinima of the house? [14:45] Lyr Lobo: I thought about correcting it... but it was fairly harmless [14:45] Lyr Lobo: no *laughs* [14:45] Scaramouche Maruti: Right. Cocktail chat, pillow talk, lunchtime debates, Q&A = informal. Then declare some places "formal zones" [14:45] Lyr Lobo: it was minor... but the reference to me could result in extra security discussions *laughs* [14:46] Lyr Lobo: I just winced and smiled...how people feel is as important to me... so I said nothing [14:46] Lyr Lobo: great job, Desi [14:46] Lyr Lobo: we stay here [14:46] Chimera Cosmos: would you quote someone sitting next to you at a conference in RL? [14:46] CDB Barkley: Do we have permission from this audience to post a chat from this session? [14:46] Scaramouche Maruti: LOL [14:46] Lyr Lobo: depends... I tell conversations in my classroom that i've had with distinctive scholars, Chimera [14:46] CDB Barkley: :-) [14:46] Lyr Lobo: i haven't put them in writing tho [14:46] Lyr Lobo: very [14:46] Chimera Cosmos: it's up to the publisher, not the submitter (the format) [14:46] Thursday Xu: thanks desi! [14:47] Sashah Amat: Thank you!! [14:47] Professor Humby: lol [14:47] Lyr Lobo: i need a quick break...I'lll rez my goodies and take it *smiles* [14:47] goodwitch Broome: ty [14:47] Lyr Lobo: awesome, Desi [14:47] Lyr Lobo: not me [14:47] Kah3na Falken: thank you! [14:47] Lyr Lobo: I'm a gamer *laughs* [14:47] Chimera Cosmos: yes, if it's someone well known [14:47] Zotarah Shepherd: So Beth may I quote you on a paper and do you want both names listed in the citation? [14:47] Chimera Cosmos: so how would we cite that in a journal? [14:47] Carrie Umarov: Thanks. It has caused me to think about issue in more depth. [14:47] Wakeup Tomorrow: woot! [14:47] Zotarah Shepherd: Thank you Beth